• TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com
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    4 days ago

    “I considered the LLM as a collaborator,” Cantera added. “My productivity was off the charts.”

    The LLM was a collaborator alright — a collaborator with his boss.

    • ZDL@lazysoci.al
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      4 days ago

      People who use slop keep saying stuff like “my productivity grew by leaps and bounds” and such. Yet I’ve never seen substantiation of productivity gains with LLMs: not with colleagues who gave it a try (at my boss’ behest until he realized it was idiotic), nor with any actual formal management studies.

      Are there any peer-reviewed studies showing productivity going “off the charts” by use of LLMs? Or is this all anecdote from people who were never productive in the first place and can thus make any claim they like about their productivity? (After all 1000× nothing is … nothing.)

        • ZDL@lazysoci.al
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          4 days ago

          Yeah, that’s the kind of thing I’ve been seeing, meaning that so far all actual studies directly contradict the anecdotes. And directly contradict my personal experience watching people trying to use it before just giving up and going back to working like actual people.

          I guess if you measure productivity by word count instead of work quality and utility, L. Ron Hubbard is one of the most productive writers in all of history.

        • shalafi@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          I cannot fathom people using AI to write an email. Anyone not competent enough to quickly express themselves in writing is a failure to begin with. Even if you suck at writing, you should still be able to get something down.

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I have limited experience, but ChatGPT was great for getting me over a hump when I was writing PowerShell. I was at a dev shop at the time and most of them seemed to feel the same way.

        Vibe coding is a dead end, and no replacement for actually knowing the job, but an LLM can give you ideas and inspiration when you’re stuck.

        One example; I was trying for a Google Sheets/Calendar integration. Very thin documentation and almost no examples online. Had ChatGPT write it. Of course it didn’t function, but I picked out a couple of lines that got me finished. I had spent hours banging my head when I could have cut to the chase.

        So how could we study effectiveness when that depends on how it’s used?

        • Lemminary@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          ChatGPT was great for getting me over a hump

          It’s really good at giving you hints to steer you to the right path. Sometimes it has given me answers that are exactly what I was looking for, but didn’t know existed. But I’ve also seen it spit out outdated answers, incomplete answers, and solutions that an experienced dev wouldn’t use. It’s also limited because it doesn’t understand the context, where a better solution could’ve been available, but you wouldn’t know.

          Overall, I’d give it a 7/10 as a study aid. It’s a great place to start, but don’t rely on it.

        • ZDL@lazysoci.al
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          3 days ago

          We design studies around claimed beneficial workflows and measure.

          Nobody said this is easy. It isn’t. Social sciences in particular are hard to design good studies for. But without measurement (and precise definitions of what “effectiveness” means for purposes of these measurements) all claims about “productivity through the roof” are sus as all fuck.

      • okamiueru@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        I haven’t seen anything yet. At work, the ones that praise AI the loudest are exceptionally highly correlated with the people who lack a good understanding of the core concepts. The ones that just float around cargo culting and looking busy by making noise.

        That said, LLMs are still useful tools, that are highly misused. What they’re useful for, is a lot less than most think. The user needs to be the expert. If they’re not, they’d be better off reading a book on the matter (and how things are looking, it might have to be one written before LLMs came out).

        • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
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          4 days ago

          Exactly this…

          Also checking work of AI is a lot harder than checking the worker of a junior employee.

          Junior employee makes predictable mistakes and improves over time.

          These models improve alright based on benchmarks but they fundamentally will never know right from wrong and the whole point of being a professional is being able to tell that. Being able to catch being wrong and correct. Stand your ground when you know you know you are right…

          These systems can’t do any of it.

        • ZDL@lazysoci.al
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          4 days ago

          … and how things are looking, it might have to be one written before LLMs came out …

          Oh, do I ever feel this!

      • Kühlschrank@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        In my experience it can really only competently do the 80% that takes 20% of the effort. Brainstorming and planning and gathering data - and even that you have to sift through for accuracy so maybe it saves 10% of the work in the best situations.

        The biggest benefit I’ve gotten from AI is that it sometimes enables me to do some things I never would have been able to do with a small budget and a small team. But that didn’t save me any time, maybe even required more time.

        • ZDL@lazysoci.al
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          4 days ago

          I guess “allowed me to do something at all, even if slower and not as high quality” is a benefit. But that seems an underwhelming benefit for something touted as “Ph.D. level assistance”…

          • Kühlschrank@lemmy.world
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            4 days ago

            Well I didn’t say lower quality, but I wouldn’t say better quality either. My field is pretty subjective so while I was pretty excited about what it enabled, I’m sure there are people who would have preferred the pre-AI version.

      • Jack_Burton@lemmy.ca
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        4 days ago

        It could just be someone lazy/bad at their job going from below average to average using llms. Shit productivity to standard productivity can be described as “leaps and bounds”.

        • ZDL@lazysoci.al
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          3 days ago

          Again, however, there’s no evidence beyond the anecdotal that this is a thing. The only formal studies I’ve seen have found the opposite: that LLMs reduce productivity.

          I’d like to see formal studies stating otherwise before I take seriously any claim of huge performance gains, 'cause when I see below average people using LLMs for writing, their writing gets worse, not better, because they lack the ability to assess the LLM output for accuracy.

          • Jack_Burton@lemmy.ca
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            3 days ago

            Oh absolutely, I’d love to see some real studies on this as well. I was just mentioning that I’d suspect a lot of these numbers to be artificially inflated due to things like I mentioned. The people ai pushes productivity up leaps and bounds for (if they even exist) are probably the people who could just be fully replaced by ai. People who’s bar is already set so low that an ai-aided uptick could be seen as a massive improvement. Leaps and bounds is one thing, but leaps and bounds in a meaningful way is a whole other metric haha.

        • ZDL@lazysoci.al
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          4 days ago

          I asked for peer-reviewed studies, not anecdotal opinion. I’m full up to the brim with anecdotal opinions that don’t seem to match reality in any measurable way.

        • dotslashme@infosec.pub
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          4 days ago

          This claim also varies greatly depending on coding language, frameworks used and the task at hand.