Genuinely the best game I’ve ever played haha. The difficulty claims are massively exaggerated btw. People just rushed to make a ton of essays about it like they do whenever a souls or souls inspired game drops.
At the very same time we now have people saying things like “well I never used cogflies, they make the game way too easy, nobody who wants to actually experience the fights would resort to that”
Nah, let’s not act like Silksong isn’t starting at 70% of HK endgame difficulty. It’s not impossible hard like I Wanna Be The Guy, but it certainly starts harder than average. Funnily, in my opinion it kinda gets easier with play time, because you get more options and health, while they didn’t make enemies do 3 damage. … Or at least less then a handful of bosses.
HK led players through a more linear suggested path in the beginning imo which definitely gave most players a more gentle ramp into the difficulty, for sure.
But in that regard I think the early game of Silksong is actually a significantly better metroidvania than the original. Comparing the paths and unlocks between my friends, we did mostly totally different things in act one and had totally different experiences. People are currently praising HK’s gradual difficulty curve in comparison, but at the time the “early game drag” was actually a big criticism of the game.
I prefer Silksong’s curve simply because the devs trust me to auto-regulate. If I’m frustrated I can go look for upgrades and come back, or be stubborn and try the boss a hundred times if I’m in the mood. If I’m doing option 2 I know I can’t complain since I’m just doing it to myself.
The recurring pattern I see among people who exaggerate the difficulty is they refuse option 1 for their own reasons, but then speak about the game in objective terms as if they weren’t doing it to themselves. If that makes sense
I think a lot of players don’t have experience with non linear games. That freedom of choosing where to go is something that some players need to be taught and I haven’t really seen a good tutorial in that regard which doesn’t just say: “hey, go wherever you want, you have multiple options!”. Maybe Outer Wilds, but there they also specifically say: go where you want, doesn’t matter.
And yeah, I liked Silksong and it’s openness. But I would never recommend it to somebody who hasn’t already played Hollow Knight. It really should be seen as post endgame DLC for HK in that regard.
And regarding your “bash your head against the Boss”: the guard at the beginning of Hunters March was that for me. I was debating with myself if I go somewhere else, but then I got stubborn and wanted to get in NOW not after some upgrades. And I did it… After … a few deaths.
If you do get past that fight early, you get assistance in the gauntlet fight a little ways past it.
I did not get past that fight early, and so did not get that assistance. The gauntlet ended up taking me about 10 hours (over multiple days of trying). I did get much better at the diagonal pogo though as a result though…
Oh, didn’t know that was why a certain somebody helped. It was awesome and I was glad when I saw them joining. I sadly missed the later opportunity to have training fight against them.
I don’t know what the exact trigger condition is, but it didn’t happen in my playthrough. I watched a streamer play that part after I was well past it expecting to see them suffer like I did and was really surprised!
At some point I think the multitude of paths themselves are a clear enough suggestion, but you’re right, that is a developed intuition from having experience with these games. I can definitely see strong arguments being made for Team Cherry to improve the onboarding.
I’m would also be curious to know how many players have run into this. I.e. having not played HK or other similar games and just not clicking easily with the style
I mean…duh? It’s a Hollow Knight sequel that Team Cherry spent an absurd amount of time crafting for Hollow Knight sickos. Especially since it started as DLC for HK, I’ve always seen it as a giant Soulsbourne DLC like Shadow of the Erdtree. So far, it seems like it fits that description perfectly.
I think the whole engagement driven economy was a mistake. People write hyper slop to get paid.
I don’t know silksong but there sure was a lot of elden ring discourse that was like “this game is soooo hard! No, I won’t use spirit ashes or a shield or phantom”.
I think we really need to start having immediately available lists of what other games a person has played/beaten before they can write a review of any game. Like, if all you’ve played is call of duty and then write a review saying dark souls sucks, I’m not going to care as much as if you dislike sekiro after playing bloodborne.
Ha, well the funny thing I noticed is that in that wave of early negative reviews from people rage quitting, tons of people actually do list their “qualifications”, to try and get ahead of the predictable “just git gud” crowd. It’s become a recurring joke now among my friends.
“I’ve platinumed every dark souls, ninja gaiden, getting over it, and even all those impossible games from the NES era, so you can believe ME when I say this game is way too hard. I am SO DONE with this. Not recommended” type of things
But if you go and look at the steam reviews with playtime, almost everybody who left negative reviews around the 5-10 hr mark ended up playing over 40-50 hours lol. I think these people mostly were just binging the game in way too long of chunks because the game is so amazing (like 5+ hours at a go), then getting too fatigued to play properly, then crashing out
![[HK: S] You must embrace the traditional advice](https://lemmy.zip/api/v3/image_proxy?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.piefed.world%2Fposts%2FUe%2FmL%2FUemL5Btbn1LNJYn.jpg){kind=link}
Genuinely the best game I’ve ever played haha. The difficulty claims are massively exaggerated btw. People just rushed to make a ton of essays about it like they do whenever a souls or souls inspired game drops.
At the very same time we now have people saying things like “well I never used cogflies, they make the game way too easy, nobody who wants to actually experience the fights would resort to that”
Remind you of anything? Lol
Nah, let’s not act like Silksong isn’t starting at 70% of HK endgame difficulty. It’s not impossible hard like I Wanna Be The Guy, but it certainly starts harder than average. Funnily, in my opinion it kinda gets easier with play time, because you get more options and health, while they didn’t make enemies do 3 damage. … Or at least less then a handful of bosses.
HK led players through a more linear suggested path in the beginning imo which definitely gave most players a more gentle ramp into the difficulty, for sure.
But in that regard I think the early game of Silksong is actually a significantly better metroidvania than the original. Comparing the paths and unlocks between my friends, we did mostly totally different things in act one and had totally different experiences. People are currently praising HK’s gradual difficulty curve in comparison, but at the time the “early game drag” was actually a big criticism of the game.
I prefer Silksong’s curve simply because the devs trust me to auto-regulate. If I’m frustrated I can go look for upgrades and come back, or be stubborn and try the boss a hundred times if I’m in the mood. If I’m doing option 2 I know I can’t complain since I’m just doing it to myself.
The recurring pattern I see among people who exaggerate the difficulty is they refuse option 1 for their own reasons, but then speak about the game in objective terms as if they weren’t doing it to themselves. If that makes sense
I think a lot of players don’t have experience with non linear games. That freedom of choosing where to go is something that some players need to be taught and I haven’t really seen a good tutorial in that regard which doesn’t just say: “hey, go wherever you want, you have multiple options!”. Maybe Outer Wilds, but there they also specifically say: go where you want, doesn’t matter.
And yeah, I liked Silksong and it’s openness. But I would never recommend it to somebody who hasn’t already played Hollow Knight. It really should be seen as post endgame DLC for HK in that regard.
And regarding your “bash your head against the Boss”: the guard at the beginning of Hunters March was that for me. I was debating with myself if I go somewhere else, but then I got stubborn and wanted to get in NOW not after some upgrades. And I did it… After … a few deaths.
If you do get past that fight early, you get assistance in the gauntlet fight a little ways past it.
I did not get past that fight early, and so did not get that assistance. The gauntlet ended up taking me about 10 hours (over multiple days of trying). I did get much better at the diagonal pogo though as a result though…
Oh, didn’t know that was why a certain somebody helped. It was awesome and I was glad when I saw them joining. I sadly missed the later opportunity to have training fight against them.
I don’t know what the exact trigger condition is, but it didn’t happen in my playthrough. I watched a streamer play that part after I was well past it expecting to see them suffer like I did and was really surprised!
At some point I think the multitude of paths themselves are a clear enough suggestion, but you’re right, that is a developed intuition from having experience with these games. I can definitely see strong arguments being made for Team Cherry to improve the onboarding.
I’m would also be curious to know how many players have run into this. I.e. having not played HK or other similar games and just not clicking easily with the style
I mean…duh? It’s a Hollow Knight sequel that Team Cherry spent an absurd amount of time crafting for Hollow Knight sickos. Especially since it started as DLC for HK, I’ve always seen it as a giant Soulsbourne DLC like Shadow of the Erdtree. So far, it seems like it fits that description perfectly.
I think the whole engagement driven economy was a mistake. People write hyper slop to get paid.
I don’t know silksong but there sure was a lot of elden ring discourse that was like “this game is soooo hard! No, I won’t use spirit ashes or a shield or phantom”.
It’s the same story every time, lol
I still haven’t beaten it because I’ve been really busy, but I’m thoroughly enjoying it. It’s exactly as I imagined.
I think we really need to start having immediately available lists of what other games a person has played/beaten before they can write a review of any game. Like, if all you’ve played is call of duty and then write a review saying dark souls sucks, I’m not going to care as much as if you dislike sekiro after playing bloodborne.
Ha, well the funny thing I noticed is that in that wave of early negative reviews from people rage quitting, tons of people actually do list their “qualifications”, to try and get ahead of the predictable “just git gud” crowd. It’s become a recurring joke now among my friends.
“I’ve platinumed every dark souls, ninja gaiden, getting over it, and even all those impossible games from the NES era, so you can believe ME when I say this game is way too hard. I am SO DONE with this. Not recommended” type of things
But if you go and look at the steam reviews with playtime, almost everybody who left negative reviews around the 5-10 hr mark ended up playing over 40-50 hours lol. I think these people mostly were just binging the game in way too long of chunks because the game is so amazing (like 5+ hours at a go), then getting too fatigued to play properly, then crashing out
It’s such a beautiful game, aesthetically. When you’re fighting well, too, you become part of something sublime.