cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/36357120
When the basic necessities are taken care of for us, including food, housing, education, and medical care.
So…not in our lifetime. Final answer.
For us and by us. It’s not like somebody else should or can do it.
We need a couple of major wars first ☹️
According to Star Trek, we need to have a nuclear war first.
I do think it may happen. Seems like human societies only learn after a self-inflicted implosion. Religious tolerance only came after the destructive religious wars. Liberal values came after the French revolution and Napoleonic wars. Europe only became united and decolonisation occured after two world wars. Now, we are on the war between haves and have-nots. So, I think social equality will come after it becomes worse.
What have we learned though? Seems like the lessons we learned with liberalism are forgotten. We’re sliding back into authoritarian brutality.
It’s a complex ideology to parse and there will be nuance in explaining some of liberalism’s facets that are successful while others failed.
Liberal social values of inclusivity is still strong. When surveyed, most people are accepting of lgbt, diversity and other socially progressive values. It is the tiny loud bigoted minority who are amplified and making it as though they want regression. But the individualist value, in my opinion, failed a lot of people on both social and economic aspects. Its promotion of nonconformity and individual competition went out of hand. We have loneliness epidemic because community is declining. Liberal economics that is capitalism promotes a fierce, dog-eat-dog competition; those who get to the top first, kick down the ladder or eat whoever follows. Both the loneliness epidemic and economic unequality are the byproducts of liberalism’s downside. Those who are left behind by excessive individualism and the capitalist economy are vulnerable to the manipulation by the far right.
When communism is no longer demonized. (Star Trek is basically space communism.)
More like socialism, and even then there are a lot of asterisks.
The Federation has a credit system to buy luxuries. It’s a utopian democracy with socialist values and systems that have somehow withstood the test of time in away all current attempts at socialist programs in a democracy have not.
As far as credits go, my working theory is that the difference between credits and currency as we know it is that it’d be useless as an investment vehicle. You can use them to buy goods and services, but you can’t buy a company.
How that works, exactly, is about as detailed as the Heisenberg Compensator.
How that works, exactly, is about as detailed as the Heisenberg Compensator.
the whole star trek economic utopia is exactly this detailed.
“we no longer work to accumulate wealth”, except someone gets the apartment with view on golden gate bridge and starfleet academy, and someone gets a chance to colonize a planet on cardassian borders. how do they decide who gets what?
Except the fact the federation is tolerant of other religious beliefs, cultures and political systems.
The Borg are far more communist than the federation.
give me Fully Automated Laser Space Gay Communism (so… DS9?) or give me tacos. i like tacos too.
Is it still a driving force for you? I’ve nearly given up.
Nice one. Change comes from within.
Also, the Trek timeline from here on out is a lot of stuff that Q thought proved we were worthless shitbags so… Hopefully that can be avoided.
dammit now i gotta tell the hot dog joke to someone before the next sunset or… i forget how the rest of the rhyme goes but my wife blames you!
I knew someone would catch that mojo. Pity it was too late to eat a hotdog with no bun on Friday.
When those with empathy rule the world, and there are systems in place to stop the people without empathy from hurting others.
The irony being that Picard says this in the movie First Contact, shortly before massacring a bunch of Borg with an old Earth machine gun out of spite because of his untreated PTSD.
Is that ironic? He’s not after money doing that, and all he says is that society has a desire of self-improvement.
That doesn’t mean humans aren’t humans anymore. They’re still flawed.
About 50 years ago.
But the capital class decided that billionaires were a better idea.
Greedy corporations have captured many regulatory bodies around the world. In the USA in particular, virtually all political decisions are made in support of corporate profits. In essence, we are heading the wrong direction at this point. In order to achieve the goal in this meme, we would need to somehow overcome those corporate influences and completely reverse the course we are on now. This would take decades at best and more than a few of them.
Sadly, the clock is running out on us and I very much doubt we have enough time remaining. Climate change and pollution levels are nearing tipping points will start us on a downhill race towards ecological disaster that will likely wipe out much of humanity. I give us maybe 20 years before the struggle for survival starts to overwhelm any other human motivations. If or when we come out the other side of that crisis, then perhaps the cultures that rise out of the chaos will be wiser than we are now.
i mean as soon as i can assure the needs of me and mine will be met, i’m there. and it doesn’t mean i can’t multitask on the way.
Needs are food, don’t get too wet, too hot or too cold. Kind of like a mogwai. Avoid sick people, both in mind & body.
That’s it. People did it before the fall of Rome, after the fall of Rome. Rome built roads that are still used.
Before that… long before; we lived in motherfucking caves and probably ate & fucked the closest species to death.
Not life… humans; will find a way (to remain)
You’re fine with your lunchables or whatever ;)
needs are also keeping internals internal and externals external.
Never. This hope ain’t going to happen in your lifetime. It’s a weak plot pushing device with zero explanation how it works out how they actually changed how humans behave.
They never do specify how the economy of that world works, it’s just a utopic “welp, we don’t use money anymore”. A seemingly efficient universal energy-to-matter conversion would help a lot in that pursuit. And robots.
I believe most rich people are there already in the real world, though. It’s only the Elon Musks who care about wealth beyond like 50 million dollars or some such. Steelmanning the free markets project: the goal is for everyone on the planet to have the equivalent of 50 million dollars or some such – that’s essentially the world of Star Trek. Just because you’re not using literal money to count the wealth doesn’t make it not wealth.
Just like every middle class person on this planet can walk 10 minutes to a store and spend 1% of their monthly income to buy a bottle of red wine that is likely better than anything kings in 1500s would ever drink in their lives. Not to mention what kind of technology we have.
TNG happens in about year 2300-2400. Even if we’re not in post-scarcity by then, the amount of wealth that everyone will have is going to look like post-scarcity by our standards.
Let them ruin the existing things. I’m interested in the new things. Knowledge workers getting around the predatory journal/publishing system. The US West coast states creating a new Healthcare recommendation authority. If anything is vulnerable to take over… it should die. Diverse, messy systems are robust. Statistics was created to reinforce race “science”. Gynecology was created to keep female slaves making babies. This stuff has to go in order to get to there, look for the new ways. Break existing ontologies if they suck.
