Reactionary, enthusiastic about killing communists, generally not super big on the value of human life, hyperauthoritarian and imperialist, with a death spiral similar to fascism, but not fascism. That’s a specific thing.
Its not though. Almost. There are a lot of similarities, but its not.
I feel like the deeper you go the more different they look. Stalin was a shit head gangster who never shoukd have had power. The purges and stuff were about his fear, or terrorizing his subjects.
Fascist purges are about hatred, especially of complexity, and of frenzy. You’ll notice fascist purges always kill people who prompt questions, they always narrow horizons of thought, of ways of being. Stalinist purges only sometimes did that.
Its not though. Almost. There are a lot of similarities, but its not.
It hits literally every point, quite firmly. Not really sure how much more fascist you want them to be.
I feel like the deeper you go the more different they look. Stalin was a shit head gangster who never shoukd have had power. The purges anf stuff were about his fear.
Fascist purges are about hatred, especially of complexity, and of frenzy. You’ll notice fascist purges always kill people who prompt auestions, they always narrow horizons of thought, of ways of being. Stalinist purges only sometimes did that.
Stalinists purges very often did that and very often were about hatred of complexity and frenzy. And if your argument instead is that “Some of Stalin’s purges were about fear disqualifies it from fascism”, then that would disqualify Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy from being fascist as well.
Eco’s 14 points are a quick heuristic, not a deep study.
purges were fucked
Like i said, the closer you get to the top the more fascist stalin looks, and i will not defend him morally. This is entirely pedantic quibbling about how he sucked.
They did sometimes, sure, but it wasnt the primary goal of every purge like you tend to see in fascism.
Like purging queer and trans people; the nazis tried to kill them so there was no more complexity or people around who inconveniently didnt fit assigned gender roles and prescribed life paths, a narrowing of scripts. It’s why they hate us.
Jews and romani; distinctive diverse cultures laced through the imperial core. Resevoirs of diverse values and virtues that would need their own rhetoric to turn fasc.
My brain is melted right now, but it’s a pattern i remember seeing.
Eco’s 14 points are a quick heuristic, not a deep study.
What criteria are you using for fascism that the Stalinist USSR lacked?
They did sometimes, sure, but it wasnt the primary goal of every purge like you tend to see in fascism.
Bruh, there were numerous purges in the mainstream fascist regimes that were predicated primarily or entirely on paranoia rather than bigotry. Just like the Stalinist SovUnion.
Like purging queer and trans people; the nazis tried to kill them so there was no more complexity or people around who inconveniently didnt fit assigned gender roles and prescribed life paths, a narrowing of scripts. It’s why they hate us.
Do you… do you not remember what the Stalinist USSR did to queer folk???
Jews and romani; distinctive diverse cultures laced through the imperial core. Resevoirs of diverse values and virtues that would need their own rhetoric to turn fasc.
I have some really bad news for you about how the Stalinist regime treated ethnic minorities.
Admittedly, using my own analysis, which draws on a bit from lots of scholars and lots of personal experience (half+ of my family)
I feel like things like the night of long knives were still primarily about foreclosure of possibility
ussr murdered us
Yeah but everybody kinda did that. I dont feel like there was coherent ideology behind it. Gender roles weren’t as narrow in the ussr. I feel like it was just about personal discomfort of the king.
stalinist treatment of ethnic minirities
Oh, totally racist and awful, but it wasnt as consistent or complete. There were lots of strikes by the regime against minorities, lots of murder discrimination murder bullshit and murder, but not so much effort to exterminate them from society at large. Though admittedly not an expert on racism in the ussr, and most of what i know is from people who lived there who i met personally, so mostly too young to have stories about that era.
From what I’ve read and heard it looked more like american efforts after reconstruction was killed, than the total extermination hitler was going for.
I dont feel like there was coherent ideology behind it.
And… fascism’s ideology is coherent?
Decrying homosexuality as ‘bourgeois decadence’ is not just a thing of Stalin; it wasn’t even just a thing for the SovUnion, it’s a wider trend in ML ideology that stretches across numerous nations and multiple successions in those nations.
I feel like it was just about personal discomfort of the king.
Then why did it persist long after Stalin died and was condemned?
Oh, totally racist and awful, but it wasnt as consistent or complete. There were lots of strikes by the regime against minorities, lots of murder discrimination murder bullshit and murder, but not so much effort to exterminate them from society at large.
Kinda, in an incredibly bleak suicidal way. You gotta stare way into the abyss to see it though.
ml’s hated the gay
Yep. In capitalist places it was commie trash, in ml places it was bourgeois decadence. My people have never had a home. Why don’t we get free genocides? To do them i mean, not be targetted in every single one.
persist
Turns out most people hated us that century. I think castro eventually said ‘oopsie’ when his niece came out, which… Better late than never, but shows he never actually believed in it, it was just shit he did because thats what you do, kind of for party line reasons?
I wouldn’t say fascist.
Reactionary, enthusiastic about killing communists, generally not super big on the value of human life, hyperauthoritarian and imperialist, with a death spiral similar to fascism, but not fascism. That’s a specific thing.
I mean at minimum the Stalin era hits literally all of Umberto Eco’s Ur-fascism points.
Its not though. Almost. There are a lot of similarities, but its not.
I feel like the deeper you go the more different they look. Stalin was a shit head gangster who never shoukd have had power. The purges and stuff were about his fear, or terrorizing his subjects.
Fascist purges are about hatred, especially of complexity, and of frenzy. You’ll notice fascist purges always kill people who prompt questions, they always narrow horizons of thought, of ways of being. Stalinist purges only sometimes did that.
It hits literally every point, quite firmly. Not really sure how much more fascist you want them to be.
Stalinists purges very often did that and very often were about hatred of complexity and frenzy. And if your argument instead is that “Some of Stalin’s purges were about fear disqualifies it from fascism”, then that would disqualify Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy from being fascist as well.
Eco’s 14 points are a quick heuristic, not a deep study.
Like i said, the closer you get to the top the more fascist stalin looks, and i will not defend him morally. This is entirely pedantic quibbling about how he sucked.
They did sometimes, sure, but it wasnt the primary goal of every purge like you tend to see in fascism.
Like purging queer and trans people; the nazis tried to kill them so there was no more complexity or people around who inconveniently didnt fit assigned gender roles and prescribed life paths, a narrowing of scripts. It’s why they hate us.
Jews and romani; distinctive diverse cultures laced through the imperial core. Resevoirs of diverse values and virtues that would need their own rhetoric to turn fasc.
My brain is melted right now, but it’s a pattern i remember seeing.
What criteria are you using for fascism that the Stalinist USSR lacked?
Bruh, there were numerous purges in the mainstream fascist regimes that were predicated primarily or entirely on paranoia rather than bigotry. Just like the Stalinist SovUnion.
Do you… do you not remember what the Stalinist USSR did to queer folk???
I have some really bad news for you about how the Stalinist regime treated ethnic minorities.
Admittedly, using my own analysis, which draws on a bit from lots of scholars and lots of personal experience (half+ of my family)
I feel like things like the night of long knives were still primarily about foreclosure of possibility
Yeah but everybody kinda did that. I dont feel like there was coherent ideology behind it. Gender roles weren’t as narrow in the ussr. I feel like it was just about personal discomfort of the king.
Oh, totally racist and awful, but it wasnt as consistent or complete. There were lots of strikes by the regime against minorities, lots of murder discrimination murder bullshit and murder, but not so much effort to exterminate them from society at large. Though admittedly not an expert on racism in the ussr, and most of what i know is from people who lived there who i met personally, so mostly too young to have stories about that era.
From what I’ve read and heard it looked more like american efforts after reconstruction was killed, than the total extermination hitler was going for.
And… fascism’s ideology is coherent?
Decrying homosexuality as ‘bourgeois decadence’ is not just a thing of Stalin; it wasn’t even just a thing for the SovUnion, it’s a wider trend in ML ideology that stretches across numerous nations and multiple successions in those nations.
Then why did it persist long after Stalin died and was condemned?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Karachays
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Kalmyks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Chechens_and_Ingush
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Meskhetian_Turks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan
Kinda, in an incredibly bleak suicidal way. You gotta stare way into the abyss to see it though.
Yep. In capitalist places it was commie trash, in ml places it was bourgeois decadence. My people have never had a home. Why don’t we get free genocides? To do them i mean, not be targetted in every single one.
Turns out most people hated us that century. I think castro eventually said ‘oopsie’ when his niece came out, which… Better late than never, but shows he never actually believed in it, it was just shit he did because thats what you do, kind of for party line reasons?